December 23rd, 2010
When I was a kid, I collected rocks. One of the rock-related items I bought was a sheet of cardboard labeled Mohs Scale of Hardness. Talc is a one, while diamond is a ten. Tooth enamel is apparently a five. My card didn’t have a diamond on it when I bought it, but an encouraging aunt sent an industrial diamond for me to glue on. Harder minerals scratch softer minerals. There are materials softer than talc and harder than diamond, so it isn’t quite a ten point scale and you can have intermediate values.
There’s a hardness scale when it comes to science, too, although not so well quantified. Physics is at the hard end, with high standards of rigor and easier to tell if you’ve got things right, moving on down through chemistry, biology, getting softer moving into sciences that deal with human and animal behavior, psychology and social science, where it’s increasingly difficult to tell if you’ve got things right, and I’ll finish at the soft end with economics since that’s the “dismal science” on my radar this week. Most economic findings are apparently wrong. Asimov’s Foundation series posited a “psychohistory” that elevated sociology to a hard science, but that’s still only science fiction to us today.
I wanted to try to make a hardness scale of science fiction, the way there is for rocks. I’ve thought about this sort of thing for many years now, trying to characterize the science/reality component of science fiction and to rate work by that measure. Let me try to quantify my scale, and make Mike’s Scale of Hardness of Science Fiction movies:
0. Futurama. While often clever, there’s nothing hard about Futurama in the slightest, which is fine for a funny cartoon. It makes a sort of perfect zero to start with.
1. Star Wars. I have often dismissed the Star Wars movies as fantasy, which they are. But they look like science fiction, with spaceships and robots. The mysticism of the force and a host of other ridiculous items make the science of Star Wars about as soft as talc.
2. Superheroes, e.g. The Fantastic Four, Superman, etc. There’s a wide variety of superhero stories out there, and some are better scientifically than others, but the average is ridiculous, although there’s often an effort to involve some science. Yes, cosmic rays exist but they don’t give people (or monkeys) superpowers. Yes, an alien native to a high-gravity world would likely have different capabilities on Earth, but leaping not flying. Etc., etc., etc. There’s sort of an attempt to be self-consistent, or fix the most ridiculous things with a “retcon” now and then in the comics or in a movie. Basically though, just a notch above Star Wars here.
3. Event Horizon. There’s actually a lot of good science and hard science fiction elements in this horror movie, but it basically turns evil into an actual physical force and certainly feels like the supernatural is involved. It doesn’t manage, in my opinion, to reach the level of Solaris where the supernatural elements are understood as advanced alien technology.
4. Armageddon. How could this stinker be so high? Well, it tries to set everything in the real world that has real science as we know it. That’s it. You get a 4 on the hardness scale by leaving out magic and the supernatural. But no higher if you get every other damn thing wrong every single time, like Armageddon does. The Core could go here, too.
5. Star Trek. This franchise tries to get the science right, and does some fraction of the time. It also tries to put in a fair amount of science. It’s sometimes self-consistent, but has a lot of baggage, too, and there are aspects of the technology that do not bear close scrutiny. The ability to time travel, for instance, just makes a mess here as implemented, and how they do it never made sense to me. Then there are the transporters…I haven’t figured out why anyone ever dies on the show, or why the doctors don’t use these. Look, there are some Trekkies out there who I am sure have some tortured explanations for some of the things that don’t make sense, but there are some things that don’t make sense.
6. Space Cowboys. I might have been able to use Deep Impact here, too. Basically what you get if you make Armageddon and don’t make such a huge number of mistakes, just a consistently steady rate of small ones. Still including a lot of science and getting a lot of it right.
7. Aliens. The Aliens universe has faster than light without paradoxes or dealing with relativity, even if it also uses hibernation for space flight. For historical reasons we’ll permit that one conceit to still allow a hardness rating of seven, but no higher. Cleverly, it keeps the focus off issues like this one so you have to think about it even mattering. The biology of the alien is suspect to some, also. This level marks the peak hardness for the majority of good science fiction.
8. Avatar. James Cameron enlisted a lot of scientific help to create Pandora and its flora and fauna. His unobtanium, very high-temperature superconductors, isn’t known to be impossible. The magnetic fields required to make mountains of the stuff levitate, however, while conceptually correct would have consequences not in evidence. Probably too cool of an idea for Cameron and art won. From my reading about the starship, we’re not talking faster than light travel. Lots of good science here with only a few minor problems and no major ones.
9. Contact. If we grant the wormhole technology of the aliens, the only faster-than-light mode of travel given the physics stamp of approval, I’m only aware of few very small items technically wrong, and a couple of things that are sort of misleading but done for particular artistic effects. Contact is harder than Avatar primarily because of the actual emphasis on issues of science and engineering, while having more subtle violations of known science.
10. 2001: A Space Odyssey. “Harder than Chinese arithmetic,” a phrase I recall reading a long time ago in some bad porn, applies. That seemed to be about as hard as…something…could get, and indeed, I know of essentially no science flaws in this movie. If I wanted to get super nit-picky, I could argue about a few things, but they’re not clearly wrong.
I’d love to see a science fiction movie harder than 2001. There’s written science fiction by writers like Greg Egan, Geoffrey Landis, and a few others that are pretty hard. I shoot for above an 8 myself.
Now, there are a few other comments I wanted to make. Like minerals, science fiction movies are not always so pure. A movie like Red Planet does pretty well getting the physical science right but is rather boneheaded in some basic errors in biology. I’d have to give it something like a 5 or 6, but would rate the physical science harder and the biological science softer. Then there’s Battlestar Galactica. Given the faster than light, a few other minor problems, but the huge number of things it does well, it should be a solid seven, maybe a 7.5, except for all that mess with fate and the supernatural that kind of ruined it as hard science fiction for me.
How does this scale look to you? Did I make any mistakes? Is it easy or hard to think of other movies and fit them in here? I don’t have a scratch test like you would have for minerals, but I suppose I could parameterize a few axes and quantify vector lengths and directions, although frankly that would still be pretty subjective and perhaps even too geeky for me.
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I’d swap Star Wars with superhero comics.
Take a Marvel title like Avengers – in just the early issues you’ve got Norse gods, powered battle armor (starting in 1963!), a human revived out of accidental iceberg suspended animation, genetic mutations that yield physics-breaking superpowers (Quicksilver) and magic (Scarlet Witch), not one but two kinds of unobtanium, humans that can change size near-instantly over a 300:1 range in violation of conservation of mass and the square-cube relation, ten different kinds of energy blasts, and sooper geniuses that can whip up a world-domination-plotting AI over a weekend (in 1968!)
Star Wars looks very hard by comparison – sure, it has a handful of totally fantastic conceits, but a relatively un-fanciful set of outcomes arising from them.
I think “Mike’s Hardness Scale of Science Fiction Movies” would be better. Now I’m going to sit and try to figure out “Bill’s Hardness Scale of Science Fiction” meaning literature… Hmm, “hard” in the context of sf usually refers to science fiction that has greater technical or scientific accuracy…
You’d probably be picking from works by people like Arthur C. Clarke, Robert L. Forward, Larry Niven, Geoffrey Landis, Raymond Z. Gallun, Hal Clement, James Blish, David Brin, Greg Bear, George O. Smith, Vernor Vinge, Fred Hoyle, James Hogan, Neal Stephenson – but that’s already more than 10! Oh well.
That’s a strong argument about swapping Star Wars and superheroes. I suppose it could go either way depending on if you include the whole set, good and bad, or pick a single example.
And yeah, I decided to stick with movies for the list. People tend to have them in common, while the number of books in common is much lower. I also expect that the hardness scale will be distributed differently than the movie scale. Your list, Bill, is pretty hard to start with. I’m not sure I read enough across the entire range to do a credible job. Maybe Hugo winning work would be a place to start, although a lot of the hardest work didn’t win awards.
Oh, and originally the Scarlet Witch’s power wasn’t magical at all, although she later took up some real witchcraft. In the beginning, her “hex power” “altered probabilities” so that her enemies would slip, a pipe would break, weird unlikely stuff in her favor. I remember loving one issue where Ultron took out all the strongest Avengers but was helpless against her.
I guess there could be a hardness scale made for just superheroes with magic-based ones at the low end, Spider-men and mutants somewhere in the middle, with the gadget-using and non-powered at the hardest end.
It’s an interesting topic, at least to a comic geek like me. I mean, Superman and Flash were both depowered at various times to try to conform to reality a tiny bit more (e.g., Flash eating huge numbers of calories that he needed when running, Superman needing time to absorb solar energy to be at full power), even if quantitatively it was still stupid wrong.
I regret to report you’ve been sheffielded.
Thanks for that link, James. I know I’ve been to tvtropes before but didn’t remember that article (or google effectively before I wrote my post). Not too surprised to discover someone else already did this. It is a slightly different, more traditional take and more abstract.
I’m an experimentalist and like to start from the data, movies in this case. The theorist is advised to follow the link above.
I’d have reversed 6 and 7: Space Cowboys/Deep Impact up 1, Aliens down 1. I haven’t seen Space Cowboys, but I have seen Deep Impact and Aliens; the latter seems softer to me than the science in Deep Impact. (Of course it’s been years since I saw Deep Impact, so my memory may be fuzzy.)
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The ships in Avatar are STL: They’re basically Charles Pellegrino and Jim Powell’s Valkyrie design. This isn’t a surprise, given that Dr. Pellegrino was a consultant on the film.
I’d love to see a science fiction movie harder than 2001.
Where would you put Primer?
I’d probably put Primer at an 8-9, although frankly I need to watch it again, alcohol free this time.
JDsg, I think my problem with Space Cowboys and Deep Impact was that despite doing some things well and right, those movies also made mistakes. If you give the Alien universe FTL, there are few other mistakes, but admittedly few attempts to bring in a lot of science elements, too.
Chakat, thanks for the information. I’d read an article about the starship before the movie came out and was left with the impression that a lot of good thought went into the few moments it was on screen.
Interested to see where you’d put BABYLON 5 on there. It has hyperspace for FTL and lots of implausibly humanoid aliens but it also has rotating sections on spacecraft for artificial gravity, addresses issues of alternate atmospheres needed for other lifeforms and realistic Newtonian physics in spaceflight (to the point where NASA was talking about using the Starfury fighter design for a real spacecraft design in the future).
I’d probably put Babylon 5 slightly above Star Trek. It has the similar issues of assuming some implausible things and sticking to them, and trying otherwise to be good with the science.
Besides Faster Than Light, Aliens also have artificial gravity.
I dont get whats so bad about Deep Impact for it to fall so much on the list.
Rogerio, you might look at the link below about Deep Impact:
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/movies/di2.html
I might be biased against it because I didn’t like the characters and their individual stories much, and a few things early on with astronomy struck me as VERY DUMB.
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The problem here is you’re not making allowances for when creators deliberately (or in the case of older SF, guess wrong about the nature of then-little-understood-principles) alter know physical laws or create physics-defying phlebotinum for the sake of exploring the implications of it.
You’re right, Wendy. There is a place in the hard sf spectrum for applying logic and science to an otherwise fantastical concept that isn’t in itself good scientifically.
I’d like to see ratings for Gravity, Interstellar, and The Martian. The latter should be harder than 2001, I expect, given that it involves no FTL or aliens. Yeah, there’s a mistake here or there, but no worse than 2001. (This is the level I aspire to in my Blue Collar Space stories, though my science knowledge occasionally falls short.)
Yes, Martin, I’d like to see those on there, too! The implausible strength of the Martian’s windstorm is a problem that would likely make it a 9 for me. Gravity was pretty good in many ways, but did make some story choices that compromised reality, and I’d likely put it in the 7-8 range, closer to 8. Interstellar, well, hmm. It did some things really well, and blew it entirely on other things, in my opinion. Depending on how I weighted those things, 6-8. It’s so rare for a movie to include GR, that I want to weight that highly, but there were stupid things that pull it way down. What do you think?
Hmmm… I would rate The Martian higher than 2001, wind storms or not, just because I’m an FTL skeptic. 2001 depends on easy FTL, albeit seemingly wormhole-based. As much as I love the film, that makes it more fantastical to me.
As for Gravity, I confess that I’m not enough of an orbital physicist to pick up on its weak spots (though I know they’re there). The regular, predictable debris storm is obviously the worst of them, though, and a lot of the jeopardy depends on that. Still, the feel of the film is perfect (not that “feel” is a factor in hardness).
As for Interstellar… The less I say about it, the less irritated I am. I soooo much wanted to like it. And again, the feel in spots is perfect. But… They needed magic gravity to launch an O’Neil colony? They put the O’Neil colony in Saturn orbit where the sunlight is miniscule? Love is a physical force? And don’t get me started on the ridiculous blight. Even the handwavium on that one stunk.
But I give them points for their visualization of five space. It felt very convincing to me, reminiscent of Heinlein’s “–And He Built a Crooked House”.
[…] Hardness (which I have quoted from at length). Update: See also other comments and versions by Mike Brotherton, and Howard Miller, Juliette Harrisson’s Discworld Mohs Scale of Fantasy Hardness Parts One […]
I agree fully with your list.
Personally I put Intersteller at a 9 before the finale. And at a 7 after.
No FTL, proper application of time dilation and relativity. A realistic black hole.
The Shyamalan styled ending lowers the score but if the “five dimmensional bulk beings” explanation is to be accepted, I’d give it an 8.